Comments on: Unreal: Effort to halt katyusha fire cancelled http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/ In Zion We Trust Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:20:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Gus http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1304 Gus Mon, 07 Aug 2006 22:25:19 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1304 I cannot for the life of me understand what is going on over there.  If Olmert is able to spin this half-hearted defense of the nation as even "a blow" against Hezbollah, I will be surprised.  Our enemies in Tehran, Damascus and Southern Beirut are going to call it something much different.  If there is "deception" afoot, I pray it is revealed soon and the IDF is allowed to mop the floor with Hezbollah once and for all. I cannot for the life of me understand what is going on over there.  If Olmert is able to spin this half-hearted defense of the nation as even "a blow" against Hezbollah, I will be surprised.  Our enemies in Tehran, Damascus and Southern Beirut are going to call it something much different.  If there is "deception" afoot, I pray it is revealed soon and the IDF is allowed to mop the floor with Hezbollah once and for all.

]]> By: goesh http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1299 goesh Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:53:14 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1299 A heavy, 3-pronged push from the west, center and east to the Litani right from the start would have drawn them in with most of their available troops. they could not have resisted the opportunity to  meet  the hated IDF head on  - many would have broken ranks and violated orders and gone south to engage. Full air and artillery support would not have been available and the KIA rate woud have been 400-700 for IDF. The trade off would have been a couple thousand of their trained fighters at  least. A heavy, 3-pronged push from the west, center and east to the Litani right from the start would have drawn them in with most of their available troops. they could not have resisted the opportunity to  meet  the hated IDF head on  - many would have broken ranks and violated orders and gone south to engage. Full air and artillery support would not have been available and the KIA rate woud have been 400-700 for IDF. The trade off would have been a couple thousand of their trained fighters at  least.

]]> By: saus http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1296 saus Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:47:17 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1296 <p>Hi Carol, I appreciate the notions in your comment though I do disagree that this may be some form of deception strategy.</p> <p>If they were very sun tzu they might have seized the almost unheard of opportunity to radically alter the balance of power in the region by truly pushing Hezbollah back, and assuming the responsibility of terminating as much as possible the katyusha threat which can only be accomplished one way, denying those rockets the field of their range by holding the 20 miles to the Litani River.</p> <p>Actions have shown some reluctance time and again to lead, that is damning in the face of the hunger within Israel's public for such leadership, it's not as if they are going against the grain of the military or the public - this push was very much logical, wanted. It may yet develop and if it does that will be more than twice now that Israel has dithered, then gone ahead.</p> <p>Such a push would force Hezbollah to FIRE rockets onto Lebanese territory and civilian areas to target the IDF by nature of those weapons range, that in itself is a death knell in the eyes of normal people in the world for such an organization - that is sun tzu, forcing firing not only on Israeli civilians, but Lebanese too! I pray Olmert is indeed the strategist we hope, late if ever. I agree Hezbollah has been weakened badly, and I agree that they have made big mistakes & misjudged.<br /> -------</p> <p>Goesh, that number quoted seems very high for such an operation, there would be casualties but Hezbollah infrastructure weakens as you progress from the border which is the front line, once that 5 km front line is breached you are in the hezbollah rear lines, there is more open ground, more mobility and we all know what mobility means when dealing with the IDF.<br /> -------</p> <p>Hi Wolf, an Air Force man will push the air force, I understand the frustration and share much of it, we must keep in mind that the IDF has been asking for more troops, more adept tactics, and more rope and they must operate within the constraints given, Israel is after all a democratic country with a political leadership, not under a military coup! : )</p> <p>Whatever Halutz pre-dispositions, it is only fair to acknowledge somewhat that he has as a combat leader tried to fluidly even radically change tactics in order to maximize effectiveness (within the constraints placed by the security cabinet). We have to temper frustration with some objective looks, I find it difficult too.</p> <p>Great comments, thank you.</p> Hi Carol, I appreciate the notions in your comment though I do disagree that this may be some form of deception strategy.

If they were very sun tzu they might have seized the almost unheard of opportunity to radically alter the balance of power in the region by truly pushing Hezbollah back, and assuming the responsibility of terminating as much as possible the katyusha threat which can only be accomplished one way, denying those rockets the field of their range by holding the 20 miles to the Litani River.

Actions have shown some reluctance time and again to lead, that is damning in the face of the hunger within Israel's public for such leadership, it's not as if they are going against the grain of the military or the public – this push was very much logical, wanted. It may yet develop and if it does that will be more than twice now that Israel has dithered, then gone ahead.

Such a push would force Hezbollah to FIRE rockets onto Lebanese territory and civilian areas to target the IDF by nature of those weapons range, that in itself is a death knell in the eyes of normal people in the world for such an organization – that is sun tzu, forcing firing not only on Israeli civilians, but Lebanese too! I pray Olmert is indeed the strategist we hope, late if ever. I agree Hezbollah has been weakened badly, and I agree that they have made big mistakes & misjudged.
——-

Goesh, that number quoted seems very high for such an operation, there would be casualties but Hezbollah infrastructure weakens as you progress from the border which is the front line, once that 5 km front line is breached you are in the hezbollah rear lines, there is more open ground, more mobility and we all know what mobility means when dealing with the IDF.
——-

Hi Wolf, an Air Force man will push the air force, I understand the frustration and share much of it, we must keep in mind that the IDF has been asking for more troops, more adept tactics, and more rope and they must operate within the constraints given, Israel is after all a democratic country with a political leadership, not under a military coup! : )

Whatever Halutz pre-dispositions, it is only fair to acknowledge somewhat that he has as a combat leader tried to fluidly even radically change tactics in order to maximize effectiveness (within the constraints placed by the security cabinet). We have to temper frustration with some objective looks, I find it difficult too.

Great comments, thank you.

]]> By: goesh http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1295 goesh Mon, 07 Aug 2006 15:05:04 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1295 By not pushing to the Litani, Israel has just given hizbullah their propoganda victory, a complete package. Word on the hizbullah street is this: "they don't dare come after us, we have won" - that's how I see it as your ally. If I were the hezzie military commander in Lebanon, I would pull all my fighters out from south of the Litani, settle old scores with the Christians and Druze north of the Litani and consolodate full political power, using the disruption as cover to target opponents. That is worth much more than sacrificing any fighters and assets south of the litani at this point in time. By not pusing hard and fast to the Litani at the onset with heavy ground forces, IDF has saved the lives of 400-700 of its soldiers but at a much, much heavier price to be paid by Isreal in the near future. By not pushing to the Litani, Israel has just given hizbullah their propoganda victory, a complete package. Word on the hizbullah street is this: "they don't dare come after us, we have won" – that's how I see it as your ally. If I were the hezzie military commander in Lebanon, I would pull all my fighters out from south of the Litani, settle old scores with the Christians and Druze north of the Litani and consolodate full political power, using the disruption as cover to target opponents. That is worth much more than sacrificing any fighters and assets south of the litani at this point in time. By not pusing hard and fast to the Litani at the onset with heavy ground forces, IDF has saved the lives of 400-700 of its soldiers but at a much, much heavier price to be paid by Isreal in the near future.

]]> By: wolf terner http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1294 wolf terner Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:26:29 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1294 When you have a political hack like Olmert elected as Prime Minister of a cobbled-together political party and 2 other incimpetents like Peretz and Livni you have a recipe for disaster. The Jews are just as dumb as the Palestinians who elected Hamas. At least Hamas is willing to fight! Olmert is paying too much attention to his leftist ARTISTE wife who, like Jezzebel, negatively influenced the king of Israel and led to the destruction of the northern kingdom. Sort of like today! Time for a military putsch in Israel to dave the country. By the way, Who'se side is Halutz on anyway? Is he a secret Nasrallah plant? When you have a political hack like Olmert elected as Prime Minister of a cobbled-together political party and 2 other incimpetents like Peretz and Livni you have a recipe for disaster. The Jews are just as dumb as the Palestinians who elected Hamas. At least Hamas is willing to fight! Olmert is paying too much attention to his leftist ARTISTE wife who, like Jezzebel, negatively influenced the king of Israel and led to the destruction of the northern kingdom. Sort of like today! Time for a military putsch in Israel to dave the country. By the way, Who'se side is Halutz on anyway? Is he a secret Nasrallah plant?

]]> By: goesh http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1293 goesh Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:06:19 +0000 http://hashmonean.com/2006/08/07/unreal-effort-to-halt-katyusha-fire-cancelled/#comment-1293 When a nation allows itself to be infested with islamic facists, i.e. hizbullah, then there are only two possible outcomes: total domination and control by the islamofacists, or destabalization via outside forces. Within six (6) months of a cease fire, Iran will have totally resupplied all the weapons used by hizbuallah and destroyed by IDF. Hizbuallah will simply occupy buildings that IDF did not destroy by pushing out the rightful owners/occupants. Why would they rebuild when they can take over an intact building? If for whatever reason you can't or won't  destroy an enemy and you can't coexist with them, then ultimately you will be dominated by them. That is a rather fundamental law of nature. Why wouldn't hizbullah use biopchemical weapons the next time? What would IDF do, blow up some bridges and communication centers and still leave Syria fully intact? The chain has three links: Iran, Syria and Lebanon controled by hizbullah. All this current war has done is weaken the 3rd link closest to Israel, nothing more. They will come for you with biochemical weapons next time and push all Jews 40-50 miles back from your northern border. If I were them, that is what I would do, because Israel can no longer fight to win for its survival. This current war is nothing but a delaying action - it is like punching a man with a knife in the stomach during a fight - he is still standing and still has the knife and all you have is your bare hands. When a nation allows itself to be infested with islamic facists, i.e. hizbullah, then there are only two possible outcomes: total domination and control by the islamofacists, or destabalization via outside forces. Within six (6) months of a cease fire, Iran will have totally resupplied all the weapons used by hizbuallah and destroyed by IDF. Hizbuallah will simply occupy buildings that IDF did not destroy by pushing out the rightful owners/occupants. Why would they rebuild when they can take over an intact building? If for whatever reason you can't or won't  destroy an enemy and you can't coexist with them, then ultimately you will be dominated by them. That is a rather fundamental law of nature. Why wouldn't hizbullah use biopchemical weapons the next time? What would IDF do, blow up some bridges and communication centers and still leave Syria fully intact? The chain has three links: Iran, Syria and Lebanon controled by hizbullah. All this current war has done is weaken the 3rd link closest to Israel, nothing more. They will come for you with biochemical weapons next time and push all Jews 40-50 miles back from your northern border. If I were them, that is what I would do, because Israel can no longer fight to win for its survival. This current war is nothing but a delaying action – it is like punching a man with a knife in the stomach during a fight – he is still standing and still has the knife and all you have is your bare hands.

]]>